Comments on: Watada’s Stand http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131 The official blog for the revolutionary VisionForce human technology begun by Michael Ivan Skye Thu, 12 May 2011 21:52:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Tara http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-61927 Tara Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:54:45 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-61927 I would rather that you do not have political content on your blog. I respect your opinions on the war in Iraq, but I did not come to your blog to hear them. Thanks I would rather that you do not have political content on your blog. I respect your opinions on the war in Iraq, but I did not come to your blog to hear them. Thanks

]]> By: Jefford R. Bodden http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-55593 Jefford R. Bodden Mon, 07 Jun 2010 14:09:34 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-55593 This luetenant shoulkd be applauded for his stand, the United state needs to recoghnize that they are buiding up a lot of animosity in the world from the countries they went into to under the guise of liberation of the people. The United States is doing a disservice to its citzens by sending the young men off to war to be kill, these same young men could been repopulating their country to provide a work force and protect the USA instead of having to attract the large expatiate work force, which if you follow the news, these same people the US has given citzenship to is turning against the the USA. Comapring the Roman empire with the USA it appears that the USA is following the same path and will probably realize the decadence and will eventually fall from being a world power, all from the new citzens they have allowed into the USA. This luetenant shoulkd be applauded for his stand, the United state needs to recoghnize that they are buiding up a lot of animosity in the world from the countries they went into to under the guise of liberation of the people.

The United States is doing a disservice to its citzens by sending the young men off to war to be kill, these same young men could been repopulating their country to provide a work force and protect the USA instead of having to attract the large expatiate work force, which if you follow the news, these same people the US has given citzenship to is turning against the the USA.

Comapring the Roman empire with the USA it appears that the USA is following the same path and will probably realize the decadence and will eventually fall from being a world power, all from the new citzens they have allowed into the USA.

]]> By: MAMBO GEORGE http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-55159 MAMBO GEORGE Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:37:14 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-55159 It is good for a man to have a stand. For Watada, i highly congraturate him for taking his stand, i know that the strongest man is the one who stands alone as watada. Even God stood for the right, to save his people. Watada may be has a vision towards his own life, let him have a stand to prosper in his vision. It is good for a man to have a stand. For Watada, i highly congraturate him for taking his stand, i know that the strongest man is the one who stands alone as watada. Even God stood for the right, to save his people. Watada may be has a vision towards his own life, let him have a stand to prosper in his vision.

]]> By: Larry B http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-45391 Larry B Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:41:33 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-45391 Yo Atlantis! I believe the experience of fear is ultimately rooted in the experience/perception of one's separatness, and I can certainly find it within myself in abundance; only when I come upon or generate the presence of love, which is like discovering some goodness outside myself that is compelling enough to make clinging to my own welfare occur as boring, even odious, do I find the antidote to FEAR...I think the polarity here is fear/isolation (an illusion rooted in identifying overmuch with one's physicality) vs. love/union. Yo Atlantis! I believe the experience of fear is ultimately rooted in the experience/perception of one’s separatness, and I can certainly find it within myself in abundance; only when I come upon or generate the presence of love, which is like discovering some goodness outside myself that is compelling enough to make clinging to my own welfare occur as boring, even odious, do I find the antidote to FEAR…I think the polarity here is fear/isolation (an illusion rooted in identifying overmuch with one’s physicality) vs. love/union.

]]> By: James Burge http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-41250 James Burge Tue, 09 Dec 2008 04:09:21 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-41250 Carrie put it verry well. Mindless followers make fearless sodiers. The band wagon of war eats the strong and weak. The real stand is represented by Joan of Arc. Gandi, Jesus. Gotama budda, all those fighting the likes of Hitler, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and on and on. It is far easier to follow and take the chance of losing or winning rolling the dice. I rolled the dice in Vietnam and month after month (18) took the chance. It worked for me but thousands of others would of liked a second chance. Carrie put it verry well. Mindless followers make fearless sodiers.
The band wagon of war eats the strong and weak. The real stand is represented by Joan of Arc. Gandi, Jesus. Gotama budda, all those fighting the likes of Hitler, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and on and on. It is far easier to follow and take the chance of losing or winning rolling the dice.
I rolled the dice in Vietnam and month after month (18) took the chance. It worked for me but thousands of others would of liked a second chance.

]]> By: Linda http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-40981 Linda Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:53:44 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-40981 After reading this article and all the comments, it feels like it is a much more difficult thing to know when one has taken a stand and when one has taken a position. To stop and actually think. . . I know that I have made decisions that were not in accord with where I really stand inside, and so, have had to make changes to those choices. Some of the changes have been life altering. It is often much easier to take a "position" and judge others' choices. Perhaps that is why taking a stand is so important. It requires something from inside me rather than from outside me. I'm here to learn more. After reading this article and all the comments, it feels like it is a much more difficult thing to know when one has taken a stand and when one has taken a position. To stop and actually think. . .

I know that I have made decisions that were not in accord with where I really stand inside, and so, have had to make changes to those choices. Some of the changes have been life altering. It is often much easier to take a “position” and judge others’ choices.

Perhaps that is why taking a stand is so important. It requires something from inside me rather than from outside me. I’m here to learn more.

]]> By: Denise Burgess http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-37154 Denise Burgess Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:47:03 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-37154 I only signed up for mind shifts last Friday. I will be honest and say I am sorry I do not have the time right now to read very closely all the comments people have left concerning this matter. A good starting point I feel is to quote the french man who said I don't agree with a word you say but I am prepared to die for your right to say it.' a large part of the issue is the acknowledgement that each idividual has a right to lieberty peace prosperity and happiness that is not acheived by the use of force cohersion or deceit. Figures of authority as represented by royalty, politicians and religiuos leader are well used to making cannon fodder out of humanity by the use of non sequitars to convince these people their lives are being used for a noble cause. In my opinion this cause is purely and simply for the advancement of the privilidged in society. Blood for oil is the slogan for Iraq. Governements such as in the USA and UK have not rushed to help other sources of injustices in the world where there is no oil. The education system is not geared in general to produce free thinking individuals it is geared to produce beurocrats or factory floor workers. Lives are enslaved by the economics of everyday life. The rich grow richer and the poor poorer. Nutrition plays a large part in enabling a person to think and develop clarity and courage to make a stand for a vision. Day to day existence not life is what many experience and can hope for no more. Now tired I say John Lennon's words You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you will join us and the world will be as one. Good night and sweet dreams ali those who dare to do so. I count myself as one. I have lived without a dream and choose to now say yes 'I have a dream...... I only signed up for mind shifts last Friday. I will be honest and say I am sorry I do not have the time right now to read very closely all the comments people have left concerning this matter. A good starting point I feel is to quote the french man who said I don’t agree with a word you say but I am prepared to die for your right to say it.’ a large part of the issue is the acknowledgement that each idividual has a right to lieberty peace prosperity and happiness that is not acheived by the use of force cohersion or deceit. Figures of authority as represented by royalty, politicians and religiuos leader are well used to making cannon fodder out of humanity by the use of non sequitars to convince these people their lives are being used for a noble cause. In my opinion this cause is purely and simply for the advancement of the privilidged in society. Blood for oil is the slogan for Iraq. Governements such as in the USA and UK have not rushed to help other sources of injustices in the world where there is no oil. The education system is not geared in general to produce free thinking individuals it is geared to produce beurocrats or factory floor workers. Lives are enslaved by the economics of everyday life. The rich grow richer and the poor poorer. Nutrition plays a large part in enabling a person to think and develop clarity and courage to make a stand for a vision. Day to day existence not life is what many experience and can hope for no more. Now tired I say John Lennon’s words You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one. I hope some day you will join us and the world will be as one. Good night and sweet dreams ali those who dare to do so. I count myself as one. I have lived without a dream and choose to now say yes ‘I have a dream……

]]> By: radiantrose http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-36313 radiantrose Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:18:15 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-36313 A “position” or a “stand”, both have distortions based on culture, creed, race, personal experiences, fears and a whole huge pile of other things. Those distortions have qualities which may or may not bring a rightness or wrongness to a situation, judged by others who have their own distortions. Living in a heart centered, intuitive reality will bring what is appropriate forward into reality without the mind running with its opinions. We need to teach that we should not throw the stones of judgment at others for one day the stones will be cast our way. In effect, there is nothing to judge for we are all in the great cosmic university, learning how we can live from a visionary place if we so choose, or we can live like an ostrich, burying our heads in the sand, when there is something going on that we don’t like. Our world of duality has created a monkey mind with a mouth that runs off at the least provocation. If Ehren Watada chooses not to go to Iraq and defy authority, then there are consequences based on whether he abused his position for personal gain. If he in fact, got a free education, room and board, clothing and training in exchange for service in a foreign country, then the books must be balanced. The universe always seeks balance. When people extol their opinions on the situation they project the energy of their thought patterns into the situation which further distorts the balance. Why must we interfere in the journeys of others? Why can we not observe without judgment and learn the lesson along with him so that we can become wiser and more knowledgeable about the world around us? If more of us quietly observed and contemplated on what we have seen, we would automatically look to that brighter, co-operative world. Then the doing, the saying and the observing become constructive and opportune. A “position” or a “stand”, both have distortions based on culture, creed, race, personal experiences, fears and a whole huge pile of other things. Those distortions have qualities which may or may not bring a rightness or wrongness to a situation, judged by others who have their own distortions. Living in a heart centered, intuitive reality will bring what is appropriate forward into reality without the mind running with its opinions. We need to teach that we should not throw the stones of judgment at others for one day the stones will be cast our way. In effect, there is nothing to judge for we are all in the great cosmic university, learning how we can live from a visionary place if we so choose, or we can live like an ostrich, burying our heads in the sand, when there is something going on that we don’t like.
Our world of duality has created a monkey mind with a mouth that runs off at the least provocation. If Ehren Watada chooses not to go to Iraq and defy authority, then there are consequences based on whether he abused his position for personal gain. If he in fact, got a free education, room and board, clothing and training in exchange for service in a foreign country, then the books must be balanced. The universe always seeks balance. When people extol their opinions on the situation they project the energy of their thought patterns into the situation which further distorts the balance. Why must we interfere in the journeys of others? Why can we not observe without judgment and learn the lesson along with him so that we can become wiser and more knowledgeable about the world around us? If more of us quietly observed and contemplated on what we have seen, we would automatically look to that brighter, co-operative world. Then the doing, the saying and the observing become constructive and opportune.

]]> By: Virender Sehgal http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-35516 Virender Sehgal Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:18:16 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-35516 The oficer is taking a stand against every norm of Military responsibility and his actions are themselves illegal. In case he felt the war was illegal he ought to have done the following a long time back: 1. He should have resigned his commission when the war was started by Mr Bush. Instead he has served almost six years from the time the war started and then when he was tasked to move to the battlefield has now declared his stand. Therefore the stand being taken by this officer is without any moral responsibility and does lay him open to charges of lack of courage, etc as mentioned in some comments. 2. He should have moved the concerned court in the USA to have the war declared as illegal. His failure to take any action for so many years is an indication that his grounds for taking this stand now or a few months back are dishonourable. In case he woke up very late to his suddenly revealed inner inclinations then in fact he should have moved the courts against the war, sent in his resignation, moved the courts against his detailment and then still should have gone to the war zone to abide by his duty. He may be taking a stand, but there is no honour in what he is now doing. This conduct as it now stands is reprehensible. The oficer is taking a stand against every norm of Military responsibility and his actions are themselves illegal.
In case he felt the war was illegal he ought to have done the following a long time back:

1. He should have resigned his commission when the war was started by Mr Bush. Instead he has served almost six years from the time the war started and then when he was tasked to move to the battlefield has now declared his stand. Therefore the stand being taken by this officer is without any moral responsibility and does lay him open to charges of lack of courage, etc as mentioned in some comments.

2. He should have moved the concerned court in the USA to have the war declared as illegal. His failure to take any action for so many years is an indication that his grounds for taking this stand now or a few months back are dishonourable.

In case he woke up very late to his suddenly revealed inner inclinations then in fact he should have moved the courts against the war, sent in his resignation, moved the courts against his detailment and then still should have gone to the war zone to abide by his duty. He may be taking a stand, but there is no honour in what he is now doing. This conduct as it now stands is reprehensible.

]]> By: William T Walker http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-22163 William T Walker Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:04:54 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-22163 My opinion I can appreciate the stand this soldier "thinks" he is taking, yet I condemn him for his actions. Any soldier entering the service takes an oath (a stand?) to obey the legal orders of those appointed over him. Apparently he was enjoying the fruits of being a commisioned officer until he received orders for Iraq. Someone with pure intentions would leave the military as soon as he/she thought a war (Iraq) was unjust. I try in my life to make my stand justly, truthfully, and with pure intentions. When I make a stand I abide by my decisions. To me, this officers intentions and actions are flawed. I am a combat veteran (Vietnam) who believes we fought for the wrong side. The north only turned to communist aid because we refused them ours. If I had to do it over again I might have not enlisted, claiming conscietious objector status. Yet, when I enlisted, I made my stand. I swore to uphold the constitution and obey the lawful orders of those over me. If I had not done what I swore to do I wouldn't be much of a true man. Veritas vos Liberabit buidoi6841 My opinion
I can appreciate the stand this soldier “thinks” he is taking, yet I condemn him for his actions. Any soldier entering the service takes an oath (a stand?) to obey the legal orders of those appointed over him. Apparently he was enjoying the fruits of being a commisioned officer until he received orders for Iraq.
Someone with pure intentions would leave the military as soon as he/she thought a war (Iraq) was unjust.
I try in my life to make my stand justly, truthfully, and with pure intentions. When I make a stand I abide by my decisions.
To me, this officers intentions and actions are flawed. I am a combat veteran (Vietnam) who believes we fought for the wrong side. The north only turned to communist aid because we refused them ours. If I had to do it over again I might have not enlisted, claiming conscietious objector status.
Yet, when I enlisted, I made my stand. I swore to uphold the constitution and obey the lawful orders of those over me. If I had not done what I swore to do I wouldn’t be much of a true man.
Veritas vos Liberabit buidoi6841

]]> By: Nancy http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-21105 Nancy Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:58:05 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-21105 While I certainly believe doing what you say you're going to do is important, I have to say that beyond promises, beyond contracts, beyond integrity, beyond nations, beyond positions, and beyond stands, there lies the ultimate Universal birthright: Free Will. Free will is not given to us by our military, by our nation, by our president, by those who agree with us, or by those who disagree. It is given to us by a Power much larger than any of these. WE are the only ones that can listen to our hearts, decide what's best and right for ourselves, and make our choice. The reactions of others are up to them; it is their responsibility. People may disagree or agree vehemently, but in the end, no one can make us do anything...we are free to choose. THIS is true power. Lt. Watada simply exercised that power. That said, while none of us can truly know what is in another's heart or make a choice for another, it seems to me that Lt. Watada made his choice not out of fear, but out of love. Love of truth and life...our leaders had a responsibility for truth about the reasons for the war he felt was not fulfilled. Meanwhile, his truth was that life...his and "the enemy's" was more important than lying to himself just as he felt our leaders had lied to the country. I'm not sure I could have or would have done the same thing he did..either way, to me, it takes courage. Courage to go fight the "Iraqi" enemy..courage to stay and fight for something else entirely. While I certainly believe doing what you say you’re going to do is important, I have to say that beyond promises, beyond contracts, beyond integrity, beyond nations, beyond positions, and beyond stands, there lies the ultimate Universal birthright: Free Will.

Free will is not given to us by our military, by our nation, by our president, by those who agree with us, or by those who disagree. It is given to us by a Power much larger than any of these. WE are the only ones that can listen to our hearts, decide what’s best and right for ourselves, and make our choice. The reactions of others are up to them; it is their responsibility. People may disagree or agree vehemently, but in the end, no one can make us do anything…we are free to choose. THIS is true power. Lt. Watada simply exercised that power.

That said, while none of us can truly know what is in another’s heart or make a choice for another, it seems to me that Lt. Watada made his choice not out of fear, but out of love. Love of truth and life…our leaders had a responsibility for truth about the reasons for the war he felt was not fulfilled. Meanwhile, his truth was that life…his and “the enemy’s” was more important than lying to himself just as he felt our leaders had lied to the country.

I’m not sure I could have or would have done the same thing he did..either way, to me, it takes courage. Courage to go fight the “Iraqi” enemy..courage to stay and fight for something else entirely.

]]> By: Atlantis Charter http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-18458 Atlantis Charter Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:14:00 +0000 http://www.visionforce.com/blog/?p=131#comment-18458 Fear trumps ALMOST everything. It certainly trumps "principle" or "values" or "a stand". It's very probable that Watada fears Iraq and, as one reader said, feels time in the brig is a better deal than dying at the age of 28. This combined with a good chance of getting media attention (mostly on his side) and becoming an ANTI-war hero makes for the recipe Fear + Ego = taking action (against some lesser fear) for a "Stand". A "stand" or principle by itself is simply too abstract to motivate anyone to face fear to any degree. The ONLY things that can push a man to face a fear is (1) a greater fear; and (2) a possibility for ego gratification - in that order. Fear trumps ALMOST everything. It certainly trumps “principle” or “values” or “a stand”. It’s very probable that Watada fears Iraq and, as one reader said, feels time in the brig is a better deal than dying at the age of 28. This combined with a good chance of getting media attention (mostly on his side) and becoming an ANTI-war hero makes for the recipe Fear + Ego = taking action (against some lesser fear) for a “Stand”. A “stand” or principle by itself is simply too abstract to motivate anyone to face fear to any degree. The ONLY things that can push a man to face a fear is (1) a greater fear; and (2) a possibility for ego gratification – in that order.

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